We can assume from the Evangelists placing the Septuagint on Jesus’s lips only that this was the text of Scripture that was available to them. Matthew 17. Catholics need to wake up & research the history of the church & the history of Catholicism. Read more Share Copy I know a lot of really hard-core Reformed are still very anti-Catholic and have a lot of visceral bitterness and anger for the Church and the pope. . ÏÎ¯Î±Î½ ÎºÎ±á½¶ ÏÏÎ»Î±Î¹ á¾
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Do you feel able to express dissent? Matthew 16:18 18 Now I say to you that you are Peter ( which means ‘ rock ’), * and upon this rock I will build my church , and all the powers of hell * will not conquer it . Thanks for the comment, David. I have stuck only to the grammar of the Scripture, and I say again, it simply cannot be understood the way you want to understand it. Assuming πέτρος as a word for “rock” was no longer in common use — it would appear they meant to compare Peter to a πέτρα; else they might have called him Λίθος (“Rock”) or Λιθώδης (“Rocky”). Very generally — basing this on just a few observations — masculine forms of first-declension feminine nouns are rendered simply by swapping -α for -ος and moving it to the second declension. . And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter - The word “Peter,” in Greek, means “a rock.” It was given to Simon by Christ when he called him to be a disciple, John 1:42. 16:16 – (Simon Peter, not Peter by itself) But when πέτρα is used of a person in the NT, each and every time that person is Christ. I guess I need to read the book. Jesus had asked the disciples who they said he was: John the Baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah, some other prophet? Scripture tooltips are provided by the Sacred WordPress Plugin, copyright © 2014 by Joseph T. Richardson, via the BibleSearch API, copyright © 2014 by the American Bible Society. You may find this scattershot method effective, but I don’t. When the Evangelists quote Jesus speaking, sure, they put Greek on His lips, because the text itself is in Greek. This is just as powerful a declaration as the one you want to quibble over. Matthew 16:18 KJV And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. To be clear, grammatically, Jesus is not calling Peter a πέτρα in this passage; He is not declaring that “Peter is a πέτρα.” If He had done so, the meaning would be clear. This passage is more subtle. So, keeping with this trend, it’s entirely appropriate to render a masculine form for πέτρα as Πέτρος — perhaps entirely naïve to the fact that this would cause so much controversy and debate among non-Greek-speaking Bible scholars almost two millennia later. The doctrinal disputes within Orthodoxy sound so much to me like the disputes between Protestants and Catholics — in that one side accuses the other of some heresy that the other doesn’t actually hold, based on a misunderstanding or willful misstatement. Matthew 16:18. Tellingly, no Greek-speaker raised such an argument as this at any time in the first millennium of the Church; it’s only been raised by English-speakers in the last two centuries. (“Here” being this post. If you wish to overturn the two-millenia textual tradition, you’d better have a little more than niggling over a missing ὁ. It’s not exactly clear when Simon was named Peter. I do not see any contradiction or “change of mind” between the two statements of Augustine; merely two different statements. A Comprehensive Response, Early Testimonies to St. Peter’s Ministry in Rome, http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/ecumenical/maxwell_peter.htm, Saints Peter and Paul: Apostles to the Protestants? Thus, it seems even some Jews didn’t know Aramaic, which, to me, makes it more likely Jesus mostly taught in Greek (there is no doubt of rampant Hellenization, and note the Greek translation of the Tanakh ca. Those descended from the Reformers’ traditions don’t really know what to do. Matthew 16:18 Context. Was it Gregory I think who basically had to step in and run the city to keep it from being completely annihilated? John Nolland, The Gospel of Matthew, The New International Greek Testament Commentary [Eerdmans, 2005], 669; Charles L. Quarles, Matthew, Exegetical Guide to the Greek New Testament [B&H, 2017], 320). Yes, and the Gospels of Matthew and John present the narrative of Jesus’s life and ministry in dramatically different ways. Now, I’m not resting solidly on this, because I’ve seen what appears to be inconsistencies within PPs with respect to the presence/absence of the article, and I’ve not fully tested this. That πέτρα is what Jesus meant with regard to the Church is not a question. It would be interesting to have her view. Why doesn’t it just use petros twice and say, “You are petros and upon this petros, I will build my church”? What “ample evidence” is there that Jesus would have taught in Greek, or that he even knew Greek? The fact that John presents the renaming in a different context need not be seen as a discrepancy. All rights reserved. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a](A)and on this rock I will build my church,(B)and the gates of Hades[b]will not overcome it. chosen for great honor, 1 Because the king was called an “anointed one,” Jews often called this final, great king “the anointed one” or “Messiah,” which the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible calls “Christ.” 2 In Matthew, the reader sees that the long-awaited Messiah has arrived. Matthew 16:18 English Standard Version (ESV). His confession? MATTHEW 16 Parallel KJV and Greek Bible (New Testament) < Previous: Next > KING JAMES VERSION (KJV) 1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven. Peter himself explains in 1 Peter the 2nd chapter what Matthew 16:18 means. It was hard to get his books in the rest of Egypt. It contains no implication at all of sacredness or holiness. The OC has no one with such authority. But, then again, why wouldn’t Matthew be consistent and use the dative form (Πέτρῳ) of this new name in the “upon this rock” clause? Thus Simon is the rock upon which the Church will be built by Jesus. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. The wealth of imagery in Matthew 16:18 makes it difficult to decide each detail, but the main point is clear. “You have masculine, feminine, and neuter nouns. Saint Ignatius writes: “Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be,” not “wherever the Pope of Rome shall appear.”, This is a fairly short article on the Orthodox position: http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/ecumenical/maxwell_peter.htm. Due to the article in the Greek before petra the rock can only refer to simon who is rock, it tells you rock is a definitive and not a quality like Jesus rockness nor the rockness of Peter’s proclamation, and it is anaphoric meaning it refers to the prior use of at least a synonym for rock. Perhaps it is “blind loyalty” that would reject my argument without good reasons. 142 Here, ᾅδης refers to the “nether world, the place of the dead” 143; the word appears 10 times in the New Testament, with two occurrences in Matthew (11:23 and 16:18). Forgiveness is easier to get than permission. But most important: there are perfectly good reasons why Matthew used two different words here, Petros and petra: this was the only way to compose the statement so that it would make sense in Greek. 16:22 + Oh btw? 3,240,Ant. Therefore clearly, Jesus wasn’t referring to the same rock in both cases, so the argument goes. The peace of the Lord be with you! Us. I personally think that things like re-establishing communion with the other Orthodox churches are more important endeavors. Matthew 16:18 Greek Study Bible (Apostolic / Interlinear) καγὼ δέ σοι λέγω ὅτι σὺ εἶ Πέτρος καὶ ἐπὶ ταύτῃ τῇ πέτρᾳ οἰκοδομήσω μου τὴν ἐκκλησίαν καὶ πύλαι ᾅδου οὐ κατισχύσουσιν αὐτῆς. It really bothers me a lot when some people speak out with voices of “reform” — especially when proposed reforms go entirely against Tradition (the major issues now, of course, are homosexuality, contraception, and women’s ordination, to name a few). So I am trying to do so, thoughtfully but honestly. His faith? I also read statements from other scholars that by the New Testament, there was not much of a distinction between πέτρος and πέτρα and that the words were used interchangeably (cf. To me, this makes a rock-solid (that’s petra-solid) case: In this verse, there is no doubt that Jesus is declaring Peter to be the Rock on which He would build his Church. Moreover, πέτρα is used specifically for “foundation” in the NT, and, as you note, juxtaposed with λίθος in many contexts. No. I was just thinking of you in my response to the comment above, and you replied while I was typing it. Sure, it’s a possibility. I’m sure you are aware of Tertullian and Origen as two who do not align with the RCC interpretation. Matthew 16:18(ESV) Verse Thoughts. If you accept the interpretation of Matthew 16:17-19 that I’ve supported here, what does that entail for you? By the time of the writing of the Gospels, Πέτρος had probably been Peter’s Greek name for several decades. In any case, up until the Eastern Schism, most in the East accepted Rome as the See of Peter. On the contrary, they would not have related what he said to Elijah unless they had understood it. The Roman Church emphasizes John 1:42 in stating that Jesus gave the name "Rock" (Petros) to Simon at the very start. It seems unlike Matthew to let such an ambiguous statement go without explanation, who in other places is careful to provide explanations for the fulfillment of prophecies (Matthew 3), difficult parables (Matthew 13), and foreign words (Matthew 27:46). Yeshua does not believe in other gods, ... Matthew 16:16-18 By reading this verse from its scriptural, Hebrew perspective the true meaning is placed back into the words and this dynamic exchange taking place in … In our relativistic modern world, as the OC comes more into contact with it, it will be interesting to see whether it will end up being any more effective than the Anglicans have been when the issue of same sex marriage starts to be pressed – as one day it will. The author saying “This scripture cannot be interpreted any other way..” Right. It’s very easy, for both Catholics and Protestants, to reduce arguments for the papacy to a caricature (that term “Vicar of Christ” is especially misunderstood), since, it’s true, what is supported by Scripture is a much more modest claim than what we see in the modern papacy. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.’. 17 "And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon [a]Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to … Consulting the LSJ or other Liddell lexica will give you a view of classical usage, but not of the Greek language as it was commonly used (koine) in the first century A.D. As I said above, in Jesus’s original declaration in Aramaic, he would have used the same word twice: כיפא (Kepha). 6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327). One would have to do more analysis to come to anything definitive. And, being a carpenter like His earthly father Joseph, it would seem possible He and Joseph knew Greek in order to sell their handiwork to the Greeks. I too am woefully ignorant when it comes to the Orthodox church, something I need to work on. The following is each occurrence of Petros through Matthew 17, with the article noted by + , and its absence by – : 4:18 + with participle (τὸν λεγόμενον Πέτρον [the one called Peter]) Also, note Augustine’s statement that he understands Peter here as representative of the Church. An object can be demonstrative and definite or it can be demonstrative and indefinite. The words seem, rather, to be nearly synonymous. To put it into archaic English (since modern English no longer has a singular form of you), He says, “I say unto thee, thou art Peter…” The entire statement, in its pronouns, nouns, and verbs, is explicitly singular. The Catholic Church came up with this Peter nonsense to solidify its power in a troubling time when it’s own corruption was seeing revolts all over Europe that finally came to a head during the reformation. Thanks for the comment. Thank you — no, don’t apologize. Not only are the two words different, but they are different genders — Petros is masculine and petra is feminine — and they have supposedly, according to the Protestant argument, different meanings in Greek. In classical Greek, πέτρος did mean simply a stone or rock, the kind that might be thrown or rolled. Or “This is my son” (Matthew 3:17)? In the example of Agrippa above — Ἀγρίππας is a Greek rendering of a Latin name, in which similarly it’s a masculine name in the generally feminine first declension. Generally, Bible scholars tell us this means “rock.” I’m not an Aramaic expert, but according to Marcus Jastrow’s Dictionary of Targumim, Talmud, and Midrashic Literature (London: Luzac, 1903), the word כיפא is generally translated “a rock, stone, ball” — and there is not another Aramaic word defined that means “stone”, and no other word to make a distinction between a bedrock and a smaller rock. The author saying “This scripture cannot be interpreted any other way..” is greatly disturbing & vastly inhibits his credibility. For example, Κάσσανδρος (Cassander) for Κασσάνδρα (Cassandra), Εὐφημίος (Euphemios) for Εὐφημία (Euphemia), Ὕπατιος (Hypatios) for Ὑπατία (Hypatia), and so forth. is greatly disturbing & vastly inhibits his credibility. One (I think awful) holdover we have from an ancient time is that women are not supposed to take communion while menstruating. I do not see Christ’s comments to Peter being a justification for the concept of the Pope at all. Matthew 16:18 I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. Yes, you are engaging in void speculation without any real evidence, and really getting down in the weeds. Since I’ve been going through John 1, I’ll make my point from there. Did he want to declare that Peter was not a πέτρα, but rather a rock of a different sort — as I have often heard Protestants claim he meant by calling him πέτρος? I’ve enjoyed researching the replies. If people only sit down and talk to each other, I think a lot of the anger will abate. Btw, the author is me, and it’s okay to refer to me in the second person. For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. 200BC by Jewish scholars). Not only are those nouns singular, but Jesus twice, emphatically, refers to Peter with the second person singular pronoun σὺ (su), in both the nominative σὺ and the dative σοι (soi); and He states that Simon is Peter with the second person singular verb form of to be, εἶ (ei). If there is a distinction between them at all, it is between petra, a great mass of rock, and petros, stone as a monumental building material — for building, say, a Church. . Father Joe is a wonderful pastor who balances well the demands of tradition and the needs of pastoral care, especially here in such a relaxed place as a southern university town. See, that’s one of the things I wasn’t sure about, and don’t really understand. Do you really think that Matthew — or Mark — invented the name Πέτρος? Peter Declares That Jesus Is the Messiah. 2 He answered them,  “When it is evening, you say, ‘It will be fair weather; for the sky is red.’ 3 And in the morning, ‘It will be stormy today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Now the apostle Paul says about the former people, ‘They drank from the spiritual rock that was following them; but the rock was Christ’ (1 Cor 10:4). Once again, if Jesus did not use a definite article in his original Aramaic declaration — and He would not have — then Matthew would not have used the article here in the Greek. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. on StudyLight.org Matthew 16 is the sixteenth chapter in the Gospel of Matthew in the New Testament section of the Christian Bible.Jesus starts his final journey to Jerusalem ministering through Judea.The narrative can be divided into the following subsections: No sign except the Sign of Jonah (16:1-4); Beware of yeast (16:5–12); Peter's confession (16:13–20); Predicting His Death and Resurrection (16:21-26) Is it Peter himself? For a standpoint of personal preference, I kind of appreciate having a supreme head, and more-or-less unity throughout the worldwide Church, rather than so many autocephalous churches. Matthew 16:18 The Greek word for Peter means rock. The grammatical construction allows for either view. Matthew 16:18 18 And I tell you , i you are Peter , and j on this rock 2 I will build my church , and k the gates of l hell 3 shall not prevail against it . and Ep. What is the rock? a calling out, a meeting, an assembly — but concretely and universally in Christian lit. Cephas is a Syriac word, meaning the same as Peter - a rock, or stone. Is it possible that this is because the referent is the same within the same sentence? It contains no implication at all of sacredness or holiness.. The current official position is that the spouse must convert, including being rebaptised, unless they are a member of an Oriental Orthodox church. For a long time I felt that as a convert I should not wish any change for my church, that I could disagree but since I chose her I should keep my thoughts to myself. But, then again, why wouldn’t Matthew be consistent and use the dative form (Πέτρῳ) of this new name in the “upon this rock” clause? One other thing that needs investigating: Note that there’s no article preceding Petros, while there is an article preceding petra. Assuming all the html tags are rendered properly, I’ve bolded the relevant portion: ΠΈΤΡΑ, Ion. Ultimately for the Orthodox it comes down to whether a bishop is in communion with the other bishops. That said, I prefer how the Slavs do things, style wise. 17:1 + I can’t argue with the Greek. During the earthly sojourn of Jesus Christ there was much confusion and controversy about His identity. St. Peter. It’s living and vibrant, full of passionate and committed people. I must make one correction. Yet even if this is the case, we can’t have a good relationship if I can’t express my concerns. The Greek word petra is feminine. I also might take this discussion in a different direction, away from the various views of St. Peter, because I have some things on my mind and I want to see if they resonate with any of you who have converted into other Apostolic churches. Read God's Word. With this in mind, could it be, “You are an individual rock [petros]/Peter, and upon this (other) fixed rock [tē petra] I will build my ekklēsia”, with the (other) fixed rock being Peter’s earlier confession? The wealth of imagery in Matthew 16:18 makes it difficult to decide each detail, but the main point is clear. It currently has a fixed solar calendar end and a variable start (the day after Pentecost). While Koine Greek continued to evolve in its vocabulary and usage, “Atticist” Greek adhered rigidly to the vocabulary and forms of the classical age. ; π. δίλοφος, of Parnassus, Soph.—Properly, πέτρα is a fixed rock, πέτρος a stone: in Od. If we assume an Aramaic ‘original’, then why didn’t Matthew record petros twice here, especially, if, as you assert in this blog post, there really is no difference between petros and petra? I merely cited Mark as the earliest documented use of the name. I don’t speak for my Church, either. But there are many people who collected his books and his sermons on tape and felt they identified closely with his theology. The house is made up of the living stones which was Israel & the modern church along with the apostles. Matthew 16:18 That is, the realm of the dead; Matthew 16:19 Or will have been; Matthew 16:19 Or will have been; Matthew 16:25 The Greek … We also have church plants in many countries in Africa (and historically we have some authority over the Ethiopian church–or so my church thinks). So this disciple is called Rocky from the rock, like Christian from Christ…Why have I wanted to make this little introduction? I would think that if I converted, it would be hard to dissent, as I would have made a choice. Not only does that not make sense — but Jesus doesn’t say “other” — he says ταύτῃ, this rock. Matthew 16:18 AMPC And I tell you, you are Peter [Greek, Petros–a large piece of rock], and on this rock [Greek, petra–a huge rock like Gibraltar] I will build My church, and the gates of Hades (the powers of the infernal region) shall not overpower it [or be strong to its detriment or hold out against it]. See also: Early Testimonies to St. Peter’s Ministry in Rome. Date: November 21, 2017 Author: Craig Truglia 0 Comments. Matthew 15. O ye hypocrites, ye … Nowhere in literature of any kind will you find the word THIS referring to a person. This is not assuming anything about Peter, but about the Church. and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades 16:18 That is, the realm of the dead will not overcome it. Briefly, you’re assuming Markan priority, while I’m not. The word ekklēsia is not strictly designated for the Church—though, of course, here Jesus means precisely that (the article is present, plus the pronoun “My” is used). The liturgies are in English only and sometimes are a bit shorter. It is a question worth researching — and a lot of scholarly ink has been spilled on it. And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. This is also a favorite passage of anti-Catholics to pick apart. Peter does have authority, but a sacramental authority shared in common by all bishops, not a prerogative to overrule others or to set himself and his successors up as universal bishops. I should know more about St. Gregory but I’m not an expert, either. There is currently a movement to unify all of the American jurisdictions into a single American Church with a single metropolitan, which God willing may take place in my lifetime. Save the English language never pronounced as infallible, has never needed to be so as his bishops do align... Least as old as the other bishops the Apostle Peter, Rocky, we really do need intervention! 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